Second Cycle ideas...

[LGM]

I'm open to suggestions...

First was just test e for 12 weeks, at 300mg per wk; didn't take an ai, though I could have after week 8 for water retention.

Had great gains off just that level, so as my base I'm going to keep her there.

So, 300 mg of test e per week to start, but I want to stay away from the highly toxic stuff, and would like to add one more to it.

Anavar? Primo? Masteron? Tbol? I'd like to keep the bulk and water gains to a minimum, as I'm still kind of cutting.

I'm 40, 6'4", 265, and about 15% bf.

I'm figuring this cycle I'll run about 14-16 weeks, with tore/clomid pct and HCG available during cycle, depending on the stack.

So, what say you?

[A.B]

you can control a lot of the water weight through diet, but it has to be dialled in, imo something like adex is a last resort to control water. besides that its GREAT to see the dose youre running. may i suggest deca , even 200mg for 14-16 weeks will show you some good growth and your joints will feel great. you can really add anything as long as its moderate dose

[Sigman roid]

I agree with what A.B has said i would go with deca at a moderate dose over 14-16 weeks you'll see good results.

[Viktimize]

Me personally, I wouldn't run Deca without running at least double the test. But everyone is different.

[Stack_it]

Deca is what I'd run aswell. Should see some great results even with the lower doses and like AB said your joints will feel great!

[ketsugo]

An effective dosage for an intermediate would be about 500mg of testosterone each week (i.e. Sustanon, Testosterone Cypionate, Testosterone Enanthate, etc...) and 200-300mg of Deca-Durabolin each week.

[ketsugo]

Just my two cents- personally I think the first 2-3 cycles should be Test only, then add like you say either Deca, EQ or even dbol is a good choice to feel a quick acting stack
Test enathate weeks 1-12 @ 500 mg.
Dianoblol weeks 1-4 @ 25 mg.
Arimadex 1-4 @ 1mg/ weeks 5-12 .05 mg

Then PCT weeks 14-18 clomid/novaldex - Im the old fashioned guy

[Stack_it]

Originally Posted by ketsugo

An effective dosage for an intermediate would be about 500mg of testosterone each week (i.e. Sustanon, Testosterone Cypionate, Testosterone Enanthate, etc...) and 200-300mg of Deca-Durabolin each week.

Yeah but if he's seeing good results from the lower dose why up it and raise the chance of side effects for an extra pound or two?

[ketsugo]

Originally Posted by Stack_it

Yeah but if he's seeing good results from the lower dose why up it and raise the chance of side effects for an extra pound or two?

Well 300 is barely a HRT dose , but if he plans to add deca he should make sure its higher in dosage than the Test. Adding deca will create many sides that he had not felt. Ive done over 20 cycles past 15 years and Ive trained and advised close to 100 other young guys to do the same. Personally I would advise him stay with TEST ONLY at 500mg for his second and maybe his third cycles. Normally Id cuss and make a fuss about anyone propsing otherwise.

[Bladerunner]

Originally Posted by ketsugo

Well 300 is barely a HRT dose , but if he plans to add deca he should make sure its higher in dosage than the Test. Adding deca will create many sides that he had not felt. Ive done over 20 cycles past 15 years and Ive trained and advised close to 100 other young guys to do the same. Personally I would advise him stay with TEST ONLY at 500mg for his second and maybe his third cycles. Normally Id cuss and make a fuss about anyone propsing otherwise.

Sounds sensible to me.

[borgluvr]

Originally Posted by ketsugo

Just my two cents- personally I think the first 2-3 cycles should be Test only, then add like you say either Deca, EQ or even dbol is a good choice to feel a quick acting stack
Test enathate weeks 1-12 @ 500 mg.
Dianoblol weeks 1-4 @ 25 mg.
Arimadex 1-4 @ 1mg/ weeks 5-12 .05 mg

Then PCT weeks 14-18 clomid/novaldex - Im the old fashioned guy

Solid mass building cycle, I still do one similar...gonna make huge size and strength gains on this cycle, however you got to be eating well, and lots of good quality food. I personally don't take an AI until I need too, however everyone is different, and it will control bloat!

[Cyber]

If you are looking for bulking up you can replace Dianabol with Oxymetholone. Because Oxymetholone(anadrol, anapoloon) gives better results with Test. In no way I'm saying Dianabol isnt good .. Dianabol provides with quality muscle gain.


But Oxymetholone gives good amount of bulk in few weeks and Test maintains it over the weeks. I've seen upto 26 or 30 lbs gains on test + oxymetholone cycle. But you need to go atleast 75mg a day + 500 mg test.

[Stack_it]

Originally Posted by ketsugo

Well 300 is barely a HRT dose , but if he plans to add deca he should make sure its higher in dosage than the Test. Adding deca will create many sides that he had not felt. Ive done over 20 cycles past 15 years and Ive trained and advised close to 100 other young guys to do the same. Personally I would advise him stay with TEST ONLY at 500mg for his second and maybe his third cycles. Normally Id cuss and make a fuss about anyone propsing otherwise.

Yes, 300mg isn't much higher than try dose but he said he saw great gains from that dose which is why I see no reason to up it. Unless he does run the deca then I could see why. 500mg is what I've always ran but if someone is seeing great gains from 300 I don't see the difference in gains being that much greater at 500 although the side effects probably would be. I'm not saying he shouldn't run 500 but I dont think he needs to.

[Stack_it]

Lgm if you do decide to up the dose I would do like ketsugo said and stick with just test. That way any sides you experience you won't have to wonder if it's from the increased dose of test or from whatever othercompound you decide to add.

[LGM]

I don't think I'm ready for Deca yet. I'm going to go 400 test e, since it's a 200mg p/ml bottle, and 400 masteron weekly.

I really wanted to try anavar, but i'll just wait till my next cycle.

[Stack_it]

What's your stats right now? I've heard that masteron isn't really a great compound to use unless you're sub 10% bf. Had a buddy that ran it and didn't see much from it.

[LGM]

Stats are above. I'm not 10%... Crap. I thought Mast was a good cutter.

I'd like to avoid the likelihood of doing bromo/caber/letro during a cycle with Deca...

FML.

Okay, so minus Deca and Mast, what's everyone's choice? lol

[Stack_it]

Originally Posted by LGM

Stats are above. I'm not 10%... Crap. I thought Mast was a good cutter.

I'd like to avoid the likelihood of doing bromo/caber/letro during a cycle with Deca...

FML.

Okay, so minus Deca and Mast, what's everyone's choice? lol

Test only?

[ketsugo]

Originally Posted by LGM

Stats are above. I'm not 10%... Crap. I thought Mast was a good cutter.

I'd like to avoid the likelihood of doing bromo/caber/letro during a cycle with Deca...

FML.

Okay, so minus Deca and Mast, what's everyone's choice? lol

Hey Bro- just honestly trying to point you in the right direction- Ive done 20 plus cycles past 13/15 years. I train many young guys too. We need your stats? How long have you been working out? Do you know how to eat properly? You need to completely understand how to train and eat to build or maintainmuscle before using steroids. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS CUTTING STEROIDS. That a myth , still perpetuated by newbies that have no idea how to stack or use anabolics. Your diet and training will cut you- your aas use will help enhance your diet and training, improve recovery , assinilate nitrogen etc etc etc. NO ONE NEEDS to do bromo caber during deca- bodybuidlers have used deca for decades with out it. You do however need to use a good anti-e or at least have them on hand prior to starting any cycle. Youre first 1-3 cycles should consist of Testosterone ONLY- for the reasons stacks mentioned. Typically one begins with a dose at 500mg weekly then over time may go up to 750-1000 mg. Pros use way more than that even. Testosterone is the king of steroids- It should form the base of every single GOOD cycle, honestly idiots dont think so. Testosterone is the king of power and size and the best fatburner. HOW? fat burner? well actually it prevents adipose accumulation, think of why psysiologically males are leaner than females- Testosterone is why. again TEST ONLY !!!!!Stacking several compounds is difficult to learn from due to all the concurrent drug use. Stacking is generally unnecessary for first time steroid cycles. It’s important to first understand reactions that occur during supra physiological amounts of blood testosterone. Notes should be taken regarding physiological, psychological and performance effects. I think you should spend more time learing how to get the most out of your diet and training. During that time research way way more of how to use AAS properly and safely. Hint- forums are not research , why? becuase many members have no idea how to use AAS , yet they read an article or two and think they are qualified to give advice. Here you will need to learn who knows- which may take a while. 85% of the time people that are titled moderator in their avatar should know, but not always. ANYWAY- STATS please yes we see age and hieght- HOW MANY YEARS HAVE YOU BEEN A SERIOUS TRAINER IN WEIGHTS/BODYBUIDLING? BE SPECIFIC ON YOUR GOALS.
steroids are only %10 of success, rest is training and nutrition.

heres my suggestion:

TESTOSTERONE ENATHATE OR TESTOSTERONE CYPIONATE
500MG WEEK 12 WEEKS

depending how that goes 3rd cycle 750mg - then begin stacking other compunds.

YOU SAY YOU HAVE TORE/CLOMID AND HCG FOR PCT- DO YOU KNOW HOW TO RUN THAT?
DO YOU REALIZE THAT IN THE EVENT OF GYNO OR EXESSIVE BLOAT YOU MAY NEED TO KEEP ANTI-E ON HAND?? DONT THINK YOU CAN CHOOSE COMPOUNDS THAT YOU WONT- THATS NOT SMART. A MILD ONE COULD BE NOVALDEX LIKE THE OLDTIMERS USED 10-20 MG DAILY DURING CYCLE- I LIKE IT BECAUSE IT DOES NOT ELIMINATE ESTROGEN AS YOU DO NEED A LITTLE.
OR
THERE ARE STONGER ONES LIKE ARIMEDEX OR LETRO READ UP ON THESE.


ONE FINAL QUESTION WHY AVOID LETRO???? depending on your answer I may respond like a wise guy and say then dont consider AAS, go use the OTC stuff at the health food store LOL- because these statements scream inexperience.

[LGM]

6'4", 265, 15% bf, been a powerlifter for 10 years starting with state records in hs, then lifting for size over the past... 20 years.

I'm also a anatomy and physiology major, so I'm aware of how steroids work on the body.

As for a "cutter" as I used above, I was speaking more towards a very strict diet and using a steroid like Mast that allows greater nitrogen uptake into the muscles, as well as being more androgenic.

I also want to avoid the increase in fluid, as I seem to be slightly prone to that. So that eliminates a number of steroids like dbol and others; I want my gains to be clean, nice and slow, and not have to worry about screwing my liver with a bunch of 17-a methyls.

I like the DHT varieties and how they are attributed to work in the body, which is why I was leaning in that direction. But I also have bad knees and shoulders, so fluid added to them isn't exactly something I'm keen on (thus my aversion to Deca), not to mention that I'd likely have to run both Deca and test for a long cycle to really get anything out of it, and the dosage I'd need for deca would likely double my dose of test.

Anyway, I've already decided on doing a little larger test cycle (about 400mg week) this time as well as a bit longer cycle.

Not trying to be a smartass; I know you can't really assume anyone knows what they're doing when it comes to stuff like this.

I do very much appreciate the feedback.

And yeah, my diet is in check; I've run it by a number of folks on other forums, and it's working for me with a few tweaks every once.

[ketsugo]

Originally Posted by LGM

6'4", 265, 15% bf, been a powerlifter for 10 years starting with state records in hs, then lifting for size over the past... 20 years.

I'm also a anatomy and physiology major, so I'm aware of how steroids work on the body.

As for a "cutter" as I used above, I was speaking more towards a very strict diet and using a steroid like Mast that allows greater nitrogen uptake into the muscles, as well as being more androgenic.

I also want to avoid the increase in fluid, as I seem to be slightly prone to that. So that eliminates a number of steroids like dbol and others; I want my gains to be clean, nice and slow, and not have to worry about screwing my liver with a bunch of 17-a methyls.
I like the DHT varieties and how they are attributed to work in the body, which is why I was leaning in that direction. But I also have bad knees and shoulders, so fluid added to them isn't exactly something I'm keen on (thus my aversion to Deca), not to mention that I'd likely have to run both Deca and test for a long cycle to really get anything out of it, and the dosage I'd need for deca would likely double my dose of test.

Anyway, I've already decided on doing a little larger test cycle (about 400mg week) this time as well as a bit longer cycle.

Not trying to be a smartass; I know you can't really assume anyone knows what they're doing when it comes to stuff like this.

I do very much appreciate the feedback.

And yeah, my diet is in check; I've run it by a number of folks on other forums, and it's working for me with a few tweaks every once.

HOLY CRAP- I guess you aint no newbie then- powerlifter for ten years NICE! Hey Sorry Bro- I guess I sound condescending at times. I have been training for almost 30 years, I have my CSCS , and I have done 20 plus cycles myself and I train many many young Bros- so honeslty I mod at many boards and chime in on these posts cuz I love to help people avoid mistakes. While you seem to know many things about Masteron- sticking to the DHT will not be the answer, and really there really is no TRUE cutting cycle, thats the honest to god truth. Now you can use many things to avoid bloat - stack with winny suspension- it dries you out, use an AI like aromasin or adex as they will keep you dry too. Also many guys that cycle t-3/clen note that many of the dehydrating effects also keep bloat to a minimum- and you can reap the benefits of Testosterone and deca along with these. Just train like a madman my brother , continue to eat clean, but enough to make gains. Masteron is very very weak. I personally and have seen a few guys come in with xmas tree erectors and shredded glutes on dbol- cuz it allows them to train to the point of almost overtraining without losing muscle mass and power- thats vital when dieting and wanting your muscles to peak through the skin- TESTOSTERONE is king- thats a given. Keep us posted , feel free to PM me too with any questions, but Im trying to watch myself as I honestly dont want to condescend anyone but I do want to share the immense experience I have dedicating my life to training. If my martial arts and Service werent so dominating my entire life- Id probably be normal - meaning- I devote at least 5-12 hours day between teaching and studying martial arts ( 40 years) and Bodybuilding. I can tell you one thing- having a powerlifting foundation will do wonders for you with muscle thickness - You have much going for you , keep us posted and good luck. Sincerely JJ